Can someone say something about those rhythms? I know how they go but they seem to be rare, not standard. I read someone wrote that Wahda Sogayara was = Maksoum, ok I can hear the similarity but the Maksoum has still such a different caracter. Are those rhythms not used anymore, like Masmoudi Kibir? When or where were they played? What mood would you musicians attribute to them?
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Germany
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Re: Wahda sogayara & Wahda Kibira
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 5:47 AMAs far as I know (and I don' t know much), these are both rhythms that are used in Arabic music, but I don't hear them much in the modern pop stuff. I have heard them quite a bit in older recordings and in what I would call "art music", but that certainly doesn't mean nobody plays them any more. In fact, my drum teacher (though he was a older gentleman) said that it was a very good thing for me to learn these rhythms because they were important to know if I ever got the chance to gig with musicians "that play the real Arabic music".
Anyone else want to add to that or correct me? :)
R
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Re: Wahda sogayara & Wahda Kibira
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 11:49 AMWahda sogayara to my knowledge is not equal to maqsoum and is played similar but not exactly D- -- T- T- ...a 4/4 rhythm (see my response to Rune's post on Arabic music tribe. Wahda kibira you can hear on a lot of the older recordings. An opinionated response would be that it is no longer played due to the fact that it requires the music to be quite subtle and the musicians to be very knowledgeable about maqaam, etc as there is really no place to hide inadequate playing. My opinion, not based on fact, is that after it being a primary rhythm for a hundred years or so, composers simply moved on to other things.
For wahda kibira the mood is generally more introspective or meditative. Pieces to check out would be Helm, El Awala fil Gharam, Al Atlal. Wahda sogayara is harder to generalize for emotion and I think is used more in smaller sections of songs, not entire pieces. Maybe Faisal would care to weigh in on this.
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Re: Wahda sogayara & Wahda Kibira
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 2:02 PMSee Faisal's post on Middle Eastern percussion tribe, sorry got the tribes mixed up.
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Re: Wahda sogayara & Wahda Kibira
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 2:07 PMHello,
First thing is, Wahda sogayara is a term used among Egyptian musicians, we do not use this term in the levantine (meaning Syria, Lebanon , and Palastine). And to be sure, I do not know which beat the Egyptians are referring to as Wahda sogayra , but it is not the Maqsoum beat.
The Wahada Kabira is what we know know as (D s T s T ) played at low speeds, and it is widely popular until now, even in modern compositions. Masmoudi Kabi is the slower version of what we call now a days, Baladi ( DD s T D s T), The Arabic musicians used to call Baladi, Masmoudi Sager, and it is a beat that was used in the singing style of Mowashahat, and in Belly dance routines, and there are so many recorded examples of these beats.
I hope that helps,
Faisal -
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Re: Wahda sogayara & Wahda Kibira
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 5:39 AMThank you, Rune, Mark and Faisal for your comments. The idea that Wahda sogayara and Maksoum were the same was not mine, still the accentuation seems alike. Thank you Mark for your reasoning it does help to interpret these changes. It is interesting. Faisal, I just read that the Masmoudi Kibir has become rare, that it was mainly used for the big compositions, whilst the "baladi" or Masmoudi sogayar has of course ramained one of the most popular rhythms. I like the Masmoudi Kibir, too, though.
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